August 31, 2005
Rebuild New Orleans?
I asked the question a few days ago, and now more people are weighing in. The question is, "Should we rebuild New Orleans?"
Left Brain Female says, " folks need to do some deep soul-searching to determine if rebuilding the dream is really worth the cost."
Below the Beltway says "Hell yeah." He also asks, "Where would the 4.5 million people who live there go? What about the businesses that are based there?"
Jack Chambless, Economics Professor of Valencia Community College says, "But the founding fathers never intended, Article One, section Eight of the Constitution, never intended to provide one dollar of taxpayer dollars to pay for any disaster or anything that we might call charity."
Update 8:05PM: Obi-Wan of Forward Biased is unsure at the moment:
4.5 million people, and their hometown may just have disappeared, and this isn't even considering the value of New Orleans as a historic and unique city.
More Updates, 10:00PM EST:
Mark says, "I don't know."
Jeff Jarvis thinks the city "may need to be reinvented."
The Fat Guy says, "I simply canÂ’t imagine an America without New Orleans."
Confederate Yankee says, "Goodbye, Big Easy. It was fun while it lasted."
Martini Republic complains about asking the question, but doesn't give an answer.
Update 5:50AM (Thursday): Porkopolis weighs in with a resounding "no," and an analysis showing why not monetarily. There's also a long list of people and posts discussing alternatives to rebuilding.
Update: 2PM
Right Wing Nuthouse says, "See ya in the French Quarter at Mardi Gras in five yearsÂ…" in giving his support for it's rebuild.
Captain Ed says:
How we take care of New Orleans will say something about our national character and whether it remains as tough and optimistic as our history, for all its flaws, amply demonstrates. Will we walk away from a tough fight? Will America shrug its shoulders and tell the city that we don't want to take on difficult tasks?
...
And so New Orleans must be rebuilt, in some manner, right where it is now.
I, however, don't see it as a "challenge" to "back down" from. I see it as simple economics. WHY? What will happen if we don't rebuild it? Will the hurricanes get mad as us and attack again? I don't think it's a matter of running from a tough fight -- it's just common sense to NOT want to build a city where there's water. Why not just expand Miami Beach 2 miles eastward? That makes about as much sense.
Update Saturday:
Jeff Fisher says,
New Orleans will be rebuilt. The only question is, "Where?"
I'm sure it will be rebuilt. I'm just saying that it's not a good idea to use MY money (taxpayer money) to do it. Let people build whatever they want, wherever they want -- just don't force me to pay for it.
Where are the people to go? Anywhere else. The businesses? The same -- why not start again somewhere else? In TWO months, if the bowl is drained, what are you going to find there? Do you really want to? It would certainly be cheaper to start over somewhere else than to first remove all the debris and THEN start over.
I know we won't, but I think we should just let it be. The billions of dollars spent could be better spent elsewhere -- and of course, the vast majority of those billions will be taxpayer money from my pockets.
If you were given a choice between building a business where you had to clear out flood destruction and ANYWHERE else, which would you choose? I think it's time to move on.
What say you?
Posted by: Ogre at
06:49 PM
| Comments (19)
| Add Comment
Post contains 617 words, total size 5 kb.
1
My thoughts exactly; move on. There's already a constant battle to keep the ocean at bay - instead of spending billions on a coastal project, or risking a move back onto contaminated ground, just go someplace else.
It's not easy to pick up and relocate, but as someone who's done it a few times I can tell you it's not as bad as being hit by a Cat 4 hurricane.
Posted by: pam at August 31, 2005 07:36 PM (l6NIn)
2
I agree. I also feel the same about the wild fires in California, or the mudslides or earthquakes there. It just doesn't make sense to me for people to continue to rebuild on areas that are infamously unstable - and expect someone else, be it insurance or taxpayers - to pay for the constant rebuilding.
If it isn't reasonably safe to build there - don't. If you do, rebuild it yourself, out of YOUR pockets, not America's collective pocket.
Posted by: Erin Monahan at August 31, 2005 07:50 PM (0Ea9a)
3
What did they say 100 years when Galveston was hit? It has never gotten as big as it was, that's for sure. I think the same fate will occur for NO.
(*)>
Posted by: birdwoman at August 31, 2005 07:54 PM (Sc2Wh)
4
Wow. Thanks for all the comments -- I thought my position would be in the minority, even here!
Posted by: Ogre at August 31, 2005 08:02 PM (L0IGK)
5
Ogre, my point wasn't in support of rebuilding, just expressing my thoughts on the issue of not rebuilding. Some folks (e.g. Steel Turman) are not only adamant about this, but seem very matter-of-fact about it, and I confess I can't be quite so detached.
You, and others, make excellent points in favor of not rebuilding, and you're also probably right. That doesn't diminish my regret that New Orleans may have just ceased to exist.
Actually, the second sentence you quoted from me has nothing to do with the "rebuilding" issue, but that I think we should have a permanent registry for people willing to take in disaster victims on a temporary basis. This would save the trouble of scrambling to organize after a disaster (as Bill Hennessy has done, to his credit) as we would be ready for whatever happens next.
If you agree (just on the homes registry thing) I'd appreciate your helping me spread that meme.
And regardless, I appreciate the link muchly! Thanks.
Posted by: Obi-Wan at August 31, 2005 08:22 PM (XB4NN)
6
I understand now, Obi-Wan, and I updated the post to reflect your thoughts (I hope).
And yes, I love the registry and I'll be mentioning that all day tomorrow as tomorrow, at least here, is all-day long hurricane relief blogging!
Posted by: Ogre at August 31, 2005 08:35 PM (L0IGK)
7
I posed the same question on my blog today and after reading some things by engineers and others, I'm inclined to say, "No, at least not New Orleans as it was before the disaster hit." By all means, the people should be helped. But to rebuild in an area where disaster is inevitable seems both cavalier about the danger to people and wasteful of money.
Posted by: Mark Daniels at August 31, 2005 09:47 PM (mDSXY)
8
Most certainly, I've not heard ANYONE (even the French) suggest that we abandoned the people and the rescue efforts. But once the people are out, is it really worth it?
And we do need to ask the question now, because massive efforts are already under way to start rebuilding the city.
Posted by: Ogre at August 31, 2005 09:58 PM (L0IGK)
9
No. And if the same thing happens to Palm Beach County... where *I* live... my answer would be, 'let it return to Everglades'.
Posted by: Bou at August 31, 2005 11:06 PM (5JHEt)
10
I'm starting a blog list of responsible bloggers asking the tough questions regarding the rebuilding of New Orleans at Discussions on alternatives to rebuilding New Orleans.
I've added your post to the list.
Please point any like minded bloggers that would like to be added to the list over my way at:
http://porkopolis.blogspot.com/2005/08/discussions-on-alternatives-to.html
Part of what has to be done is contact Senators and Congressman to let them know there's another way to help those in need.
Porkopolis
Posted by: Porkopolis at August 31, 2005 11:11 PM (mI6CS)
11
I'd really like to see this NOT happen, but I really don't think it will. There are too many in government that cannot even consider the option of leaving it alone. Why am I picturing Sisyphus now?
Posted by: Ogre at September 01, 2005 05:55 AM (L0IGK)
12
Well, I don't think the gov't will forcibly re-build. I think they'll just offer incentives, like tax-exemptions, grants, and low-interest loans.
But I don't think there'll be a lot of interest.
If the population of New Orleans ever rises above 100,000 again, I'd be shocked.
I think the lesson "don't live in a bowl below sea level" has pretty well been learned.
Posted by: Harvey at September 01, 2005 11:12 AM (ubhj8)
13
I think they will rebuild the infrastructure for 500,000 -- that will just be silly. I hope the lesson has been learned!
Posted by: Ogre at September 01, 2005 12:03 PM (/k+l4)
14
Some sort of port facility will have to remain in place. There's too much traffic down the Mississippi that has to be transfered from river-going barge to ocean-going ship. The "not in my back yard" mentality would preclude moving the super tanker port and the refineries. The super tanker thing would require being near the water somehow, somewhere. If not there, where? It would have to be near refineries. Galveston?? Who said 1900 couldn't happen again?
Posted by: David R. Block at September 01, 2005 04:41 PM (HPQz7)
15
I can see a port facility -- but even that can be moved to the new end of the river instead of draining all of New Orleans.
Posted by: Ogre at September 01, 2005 05:35 PM (L0IGK)
16
New Orleans will be rebuilt. The only question is what parts will be built where?
I think that if the whole quaint French Quarter etc. is going to be rebuilt, then it may as well recreate itself on higher ground a ways upstream or across Lake Pontchartrain, and most of the rest of the city can follow. Move the name of the city with it, and later generations will find the move to be a quaint historic fact -- while they continue to flock to the attractions as if they'd always been there. See:
http://jeffryfisher.net/Statesman/Misc/NewOrleans.htm
Posted by: Aspiring Statesman at September 03, 2005 01:26 PM (GIEE0)
17
I have no problem with people building wherever they want to. I just don't want to pay for draining land that's underwater just so people can build there. That just doesn't make sense.
Posted by: Ogre at September 03, 2005 03:17 PM (L0IGK)
18
im with u guys new orleans was a nice city but it doesn't make sence to wast 100 billion dollers to rebuild something that will just get destroyed again. the reason it has never happened befor for thous of you who don't know is the steady rise of polution in the atmosphear. the united stares is the heaviest poluter in the world and bush pulling out of the keyoto accord has only made it worse. the huricanes will only get worse and the death tole will only rise till the burning of fossle fuels is cut back. but all that aside bush is a bourn and raised southerner i think that he will do all that he can to rebuild the city right where it was right down to the last building. then this will all repeat and the econemy will crash and the united states will loose its position as a superpower in the world
Posted by: Unicron at September 23, 2005 01:09 PM (KEJ4O)
19
At last count, Unicron, that total was over $200 billion now! Thanks for stopping by.
Posted by: Ogre at September 23, 2005 01:56 PM (/k+l4)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
August 30, 2005
Subscriptions for Soldiers
One of the Google Ads led to a site called
Subscriptions for Soldiers. This is a site that
gives you a chance to personally show the hardworking men and women in AmericaÂ’s armed forces how much you truly appreciate their sacrifice. For only $10 you can send a gift subscription to active servicemen and women serving around the world right now.
That sounds pretty good!
Has anyone else heard anything about this site or the group promoting it (PriMedia)? I'd love to hear someone that knows this group is on the up and up before promoting them and sending them some of my cash...
Posted by: Ogre at
11:02 AM
| Comments (2)
| Add Comment
Post contains 110 words, total size 1 kb.
1
I have to agree with your suspicions. Some people will expoit anything for a buck. Keep us posted if this is above board.
Posted by: Tomslick at August 30, 2005 04:13 PM (xNjHI)
2
I've not found anything yet to either support or oppose this yet. I will post again if I can find something one way or the other.
Posted by: Ogre at August 30, 2005 04:48 PM (L0IGK)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
August 29, 2005
Favorite Quote
Richard Combs, of
Combs Spouts Off, is
asking for favorite quotes. I'll provide two.
I regret that I have but one life to give for my country.
Sometimes worded as "one life to lose." Either way, it's one of my all-time favorites.
Also:
It's a 106 miles to Chicago. We got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.
Feel free to name the speakers in the comments.
Posted by: Ogre at
10:30 AM
| Comments (7)
| Add Comment
Post contains 80 words, total size 1 kb.
1
I'm a geek aren't I? I know the top one from school. Nathan Hale. The 2nd one... no clue. Obviously a pop culture reference that I didn't get while living under my rock reading history...
Posted by: Bou at August 29, 2005 12:47 PM (5JHEt)
2
Sounds like the Blues Brothers.
One of my all time favs is
Promise her anything, but give her Pez.
Posted by: tomslick at August 29, 2005 01:53 PM (xNjHI)
3
You're right on both counts, Bou -- and Tomslick hit it with the second one. Bou, you should watch the Blues Brothers more often. And not that edited crap on broadcast TV, either.
Posted by: Ogre at August 29, 2005 02:09 PM (L0IGK)
4
Elwood Blues, specifically :-)
Anyway, one of my faves, and something I consistantly preach to people thinking about starting a blog:
"Start where you stand, and work with whatever tools you may have at your command, and better tools will be found as you go along"--Napoleon Hill
Phrased more poetically in Andrew Carnegie's favorite version:
"The gods send thread for a web begun."
Posted by: Harvey at August 29, 2005 05:38 PM (ubhj8)
5
And don't forget the follow up line from Jake: "Hit It."
Posted by: Ogre at August 29, 2005 07:19 PM (L0IGK)
6
Heck, if you're going to allow Blues Brothers quotes, how about:
Jake: First you trade the Cadillac for a microphone. Then you lie to me about the band. Now you're gonna put me right back in the joint.
Elwood: They're not gonna catch us. We're on a mission from God.
Posted by: Richard G. Combs at August 31, 2005 12:07 AM (rCfWT)
7
"You traded the Cadillac for this?"
"No, for a microphone."
"Oh, that's different."
Posted by: Ogre at August 31, 2005 05:58 AM (L0IGK)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
August 26, 2005
Bush Says...
President Bush, August 24, 2005:
"So long as I'm the president, we will stay, we will fight, and we will win the war on terror."
Awesome.
Posted by: Ogre at
01:30 PM
| Comments (4)
| Add Comment
Post contains 30 words, total size 1 kb.
1
Whoo! Hoo! I do like him. I really do.
Posted by: Oddybobo at August 26, 2005 05:49 PM (6Gm0j)
2
And he needs to keep saying this, and more, over and over. And over. /TJ
Posted by: TJ at August 26, 2005 08:41 PM (PL7dL)
3
Amazing how consistency makes a difference.
Posted by: vw bug at August 27, 2005 12:26 PM (8QWwp)
4
You really need to listen close to hear what he says -- this sort of thing doesn't make the press very often.
Posted by: Ogre at August 28, 2005 07:36 PM (L0IGK)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
August 25, 2005
French continue to Hate
The French continue to hate America. I know this isn't news to most people. In
this case, the French are mad because an American, the amazing Lance Armstrong, won the French bike race so many times.
Tour de France director Jean-Marie Leblanc is claiming that Lance was using illegal drugs when he won the first championship in 1999. A look at the details does beg some questions -- Jean is basing his claims on an "anonymous" sample, claiming to have matched the sample up with Mr. Armstrong. If the sample was anonymous, how in the world did it get matched to Mr. Armstrong? Lance Armstrong himself questions how those results were leaked to newspapers and how they were matching himself.
In addition, Jean shows his French bias and misunderstanding of reality when he claims that Armstrong owes it to the world to explain "Why, How, By Whom?" You see, Mr. Marie, the onus is actually on YOU to prove your allegations first. To claim that "someone" has shown you he was doping is meaningless. That would be akin to me claiming that Mr. Marie had a banana up his rear during the last meeting of the Tour de France committee, and it was up to HIM to prove he didn't.
Finally, he showed his Frenchness by speaking with Lance Armstrong for 30 minutes by telephone and never once made any allegations or suggestions to Mr. Armstrong that there were any problems. He only made his accusations through the press. Typical two-faced idiot.
People of France, this is how you're perceived around the world because this is the type of person that makes your national press. Are you proud?
Posted by: Ogre at
03:02 PM
| Comments (9)
| Add Comment
Post contains 286 words, total size 2 kb.
Posted by: vw bug at August 25, 2005 04:41 PM (coJPb)
2
F*** you, Republitards!
Posted by: Don Myers at August 25, 2005 04:51 PM (eDSy+)
3
I love well-reasoned, civil debate. Don't you?
Posted by: basil at August 25, 2005 05:33 PM (4Ek1C)
4
And an interesting post to place such a comment upon. I guess he's French.
Posted by: Ogre at August 25, 2005 05:57 PM (L0IGK)
5
Basil- It's the intelligence that I find astounding. Such depth to his vocabulary...
Posted by: Bou at August 25, 2005 09:04 PM (5JHEt)
6
another example of Gallic imbecility and Vacuousness.Don if you can't make a more intelligent argument than this post someplace else,I have a very low threshold and tolerance for lamebrains.
Posted by: Lisa gilliam at August 25, 2005 09:17 PM (Nl0JZ)
7
But hey, the punctuation and capitalization were correct, in as much that the f-word can be a verb.
Posted by: Ogre at August 26, 2005 06:02 AM (L0IGK)
8
I clicked on his site and puked.
Posted by: tomslick at August 26, 2005 09:25 AM (xNjHI)
9
I guess there should be a warning -- although I'm pretty sure it's a detailed trolling.
In case anyone else reads and wants to follow the link, be warned what will appear is not safe for work, nor is it safe for normal, sane people.
Posted by: Ogre at August 26, 2005 09:35 AM (/k+l4)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
August 10, 2005
Project VALOR IT
Soldier's Angels has a new project that they'd like your assistance with:
Project VALOR IT (Voice Activated Laptops for OUR Injured Troops).
"Project Valour IT, in memory of SFC William V. Ziegenfuss, provides voice-controlled software and laptop computers to wounded Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines recovering from hand and arm injuries or amputations at major military medical centers. Operating laptops by speaking into a microphone, our wounded heroes are able to send and receive messages from friends and loved ones, surf the 'Net, and communicate with buddies still in the field without having to press a key or move a mouse. The experience of CPT Charles "Chuck" Ziegenfuss, a partner in the project who suffered hand wounds while serving in Iraq, illustrates how important this voice-controlled software can be to a wounded servicemember's recovery."
Neat.
Read more. Donations are tax deductible, and some employers may match your donations. How about it? Got a dime to spare, buddy?
Posted by: Ogre at
03:02 PM
| No Comments
| Add Comment
Post contains 163 words, total size 1 kb.
August 09, 2005
Fight the Good Fight
Another good volunteer continues to serve this great nation (what's left of it) in the fight against terrorism and evil in the world. Go drop
Michael Churchill a note of thanks as he heads out for deployment.
Posted by: Ogre at
07:55 AM
| No Comments
| Add Comment
Post contains 45 words, total size 1 kb.
August 04, 2005
Detectives Needed
I was speaking with a friend of mine yesterday afternoon, and he had a good idea -- we need some detectives. He suggested we should start the investigation, and he's quite sure that Bud Selig, President George W. Bush, and the U.S. Congress would be very happy (and likely to pay a lot) for us to solve this mystery.
We have GOT to find out who it is that's running around the country injecting people with steroids! I think if we track Rafael Palmeiro's steps, we can find out where he's been. Is he being injected in public, when someone brushes up against him in a crowd? Perhaps someone is sneaking into his house at night and shooting him up while he sleeps.
We now have Jason Giambi who has said he didn't take them, but then told a federal grand jury he did take them. Jason says what's happened to Palmeiro is "an unfortunate thing." Add Ryan Franklin, the 8th violator of Major League Baseball's steroid policy, and now we're sure there's a conspiracy.
Someone, or some group, possibly connected to the medical field, with access to steroids, is obviously going around, in secret, and injecting these baseball players with steroids. Why? That is the big unknown. We're not sure yet if it's a conspiracy to bring down MLB, or if it's targeted at certain players. Advance copies of NYTimes articles seem to indicate that they blame Bush.
Posted by: Ogre at
09:02 AM
| Comments (4)
| Add Comment
Post contains 243 words, total size 2 kb.
1
I too fear for the future of MLB. Whoever is targeting these poor souls is a monster... no, a demon!
Have any of them seen a light in the sky? Just working on a theory...
Posted by: That 1 Guy at August 05, 2005 01:24 AM (Yi65j)
2
We don't know anything about who these monsters are. Investigations have commenced. We've got someone following Rafi 24/7...
Posted by: Ogre at August 05, 2005 07:13 AM (/k+l4)
3
I for one think it's Barry Bonds going around injecting others so he doesn't look as bad.
Either that or its the flies in my office.
Posted by: Machelle at August 05, 2005 01:33 PM (ZAyoW)
4
Barry Bonds is doing what to the FILES in your office?
Posted by: Ogre at August 05, 2005 02:08 PM (L0IGK)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
August 01, 2005
Jury Nullification
Ever heard of it? Well, you should have.
The Agitator writes about it in his weekly
Fox column. Jury nullification is well defined by Clay S. Conrad in his book, "
Jury Nullification: The Evolution of a Doctrine
" as
"Jurors in criminal trials have the right to refuse to convict if they believe that a conviction would be in some way unjust."
And that's the truth, no matter what the judge or the lawyers say! When the judge tells you, the jury, that you "must" do something, he is outright lying. Why? Because he wants to retain his power! The primary basis of freedom and this country IS based on the idea that the people have the final say. As Mr. Balko says:
(1) Jurors can never be punished for the verdict they return, and (2) Defendants cannot be retried once a jury has found them not guilty, regardless of the jury's reasoning.
In other words, you can quite literally make any decision you want when on a jury, and you CANNOT be punished for it. If you ever get selected for jury service, know this and get informed! Check out the
Fully Informed Jury Association and learn the REAL power of a jury -- but don't let the judge or lawyers know that you know you have power over them -- they won't like it one bit.
Serving on a jury may be the last, great hope for this country. If you are called to serve, serve -- but feel free to ignore the judge as YOU are the one in charge, NOT him.
Posted by: Ogre at
09:00 AM
| Comments (9)
| Add Comment
Post contains 268 words, total size 2 kb.
1
Good information to know Ogre. thanks
Posted by: Jay at August 01, 2005 10:30 AM (2FcUc)
2
If you're ever on a jury, just remember: YOU are in charge -- no matter what that judge tells you. SERIOUSLY.
Posted by: Ogre at August 01, 2005 10:35 AM (/k+l4)
3
Very interesting & really valuable to know. There's been a definate down-play to intimidate, there.
Posted by: Mensa B at August 01, 2005 11:40 AM (TOHVc)
4
Heh. Funny you should say that. We have a situation here in Palm Beach County that just reared its ugly head. A young High School kid skipped school with a girl. He was hauling ass through a neighborhood and wrapped his car around a tree, killing the girl. Seems the girl was a daughter of a cop.
So... it is coming out now, that two people on the jury wanted to vote 'not guilty' as they thought the penalty was too harsh for 'guilty' for such a young man... but someone on the jury said they felt certain that if they did not convict this young man, they all would be harrassed by the cops... for a long time.
It swayed them for a conviction.
Me? That would not have swayed me. I do not make my judgments based on fear like that. I won't be intimidated. But... it happened. A jury who thought they had no control. It will be interesting what will come of it now that it is under the light.
Posted by: Bou at August 01, 2005 12:36 PM (5JHEt)
5
More than a down-play, MensaB, judges often incorrectly tell the jury what they can and cannot do. However, since people generally fear the judge, it continues.
Very interesting, Bou, as in that case, a mistrial can be called. The justice system we have is very, very interesting to me -- a guilty verdict by a jury can be checked, verified, put under a microscope, overturned, etc.; but an innocent verdict cannot.
Posted by: Ogre at August 01, 2005 12:51 PM (/k+l4)
6
The judge is disturbed. It only came out after he received a letter from the juror... I believe after sentencing. Not sure... may have been before. The cops are pissed and I don't blame them. The kid could very well get off because of complete BS in the backroom.
Posted by: Bou at August 01, 2005 02:31 PM (5JHEt)
7
I think the way you've described it, the defense lawyer could request an appeal and a mistrial. Then the whole trial would just be done all over again!
Posted by: Ogre at August 01, 2005 02:50 PM (L0IGK)
8
I'll keep your advice in mind if I ever get picked for a jury. I never get that far.
too ed-joo-kay-tid, I guess.
(*)>
Posted by: birdwoman at August 02, 2005 09:51 AM (vR7Sl)
9
Just don't let the lawyers know you know!
Those inside the legal system absolutely HATE the Fully Informed Jury Association.
Posted by: Ogre at August 02, 2005 09:55 AM (/k+l4)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
57kb generated in CPU 0.2578, elapsed 0.7244 seconds.
92 queries taking 0.6881 seconds, 252 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.