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September 26, 2006

Religion and Politics

Well, let's throw up a bit of controversy here and see what happens, shall we? How about we introduce the two things that you're not supposed to talk about in polite company: religion and politics -- and let's mix them up. Here's my theory:

You cannot have politics and government without religion

This post has been floating around in my head for quite some time now, and after reading Joe Carter's post on "An Open Letter to the Religious Right, I'm finally putting it into words.
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Posted by: Ogre at 03:55 PM | Comments (20) | Add Comment
Post contains 799 words, total size 5 kb.

1 Sorry, ogre, totally off the subject, but I do not have access to email at the moment. You have to check this out and see the moonbats on parade: http://impeachbush.meetup.com/356/?gj=sj5 It is on Saturday in Charlotte.

Posted by: William Teach at September 26, 2006 04:29 PM (doAuV)

2 I have been watching that very closely. I think I might attend with camera... This is the same group that met downtown Saturday and clashed with police.

Posted by: Ogre at September 26, 2006 04:54 PM (oifEm)

3 IMHO, our Declaration and Constitution are divinely inspired documents.

Posted by: DagneyT at September 26, 2006 10:19 PM (pFR9u)

4 I agree, Dagney, but there are more than a few who would claim that they're not, despite the wording used in them.

Posted by: Ogre at September 26, 2006 11:09 PM (QmGzr)

5 a question was raised in my ethics class recently that I have been struggling with and I was hoping you could answer it. I was raised Roman Catholic and obviously was taught that god created EVERYTHING. however the professor asked us the other day why murder was wrong, because God said so or because it causes pain and suffering etc. obviously the answer is because it causes pain, not simply because god says so. If this much is true than the morality that we adhere to is something seperate from god and thus was not created by him. Even if he did create the moral code he had to have reasons for his logic or he would be irrational. If I am to accept that morality is not simply a product of god than how can I continue to accept God in the traditional sense?

Posted by: Brian at September 26, 2006 11:31 PM (Fvkgc)

6 Why is the obvious answer "because it causes pain?" What if the pain is because your body is rebelling and requiring action of the one being attacked? And what about murders that cause no pain (like by poisoning or lethal injection)? I question your "obvious" answer.

Posted by: Ogre at September 26, 2006 11:34 PM (QmGzr)

7 the actual act of murder is not the point. The point is that murder or whatever you decide is more applicable, is wrong regardless of god saying it is wrong

Posted by: brian at September 27, 2006 12:28 AM (Fvkgc)

8 But therein lies the rub. WHY is it wrong? You have stated that it is wrong -- says who? Certainly Darwin would absolutely disagree. If all life is survival of the fittest then the strong SHOULD murder the weak because it means the strong will survive. Murder certainly isn't wrong in the animal kingdom, so WHY is it wrong for people?

Posted by: Ogre at September 27, 2006 09:01 AM (QmGzr)

9 ogre murder doesnt matter, you can pick whatever act you want and apply the same theory, so if you think murder is ok than surely there must be some act that you thought was wrong before god said so. Rape. I think Rape is wrong no matter what god says.

Posted by: brian at September 27, 2006 04:19 PM (Z4rnY)

10 You're changing the terms. The question doesn't change: WHY? Says who? At first you claimed that murder was wrong because it was painful. Then you changed and said that murder was wrong because it's wrong. Now you're saying that rape is wrong because it's wrong. You're missing the point of me and the ethics professor: WHY is it wrong? What about the action makes it wrong? How did you decide that?

Posted by: Ogre at September 27, 2006 05:31 PM (oifEm)

11 Alright than I am saying that there is a moral code in place seperate from god that tells me that raping a woman is wrong. Do you believe that the only reason rape is wrong is because god says so?

Posted by: brian at September 27, 2006 06:11 PM (Z4rnY)

12 Alright, your moral code decides what is wrong and what is right. Where did that come from?

Posted by: Ogre at September 27, 2006 07:56 PM (oifEm)

13 from my own sense of self and my personal conception of right and wrong, having nothing to do with god. again, do you believe there is anything wrong with rape other than the fact that god says it is wrong?

Posted by: brian at September 27, 2006 09:26 PM (Z4rnY)

14 So we're back to your original question. You stated that you were a Catholic that was struggling with your belief system and were questioning if murder was wrong because God said it was wrong. Now you state that you, personally, have decided that murder is wrong because YOU say it's wrong. That's fine, that's your belief system. Of course, when you subscribe to that system of beliefs, every single person gets to decide for themselves exactly what is right and wrong. If I disagree with you, then my entire belief system can be quite literally anything I want it to be, including claiming that rape and murder are not actually "wrong." On the other hand, Christians believe that God created Man and gave him everything that he has including free will, reason, and a moral code. Christians believe that because God created man that the personal conception of right and wrong that you have determined was put there by God himself. If that is the case, then everyone has the same basic moral code impressed upon them and only the truly evil (due to free will) disagree with that God-inspired written on everyone's heart moral code.

Posted by: Ogre at September 27, 2006 09:49 PM (QmGzr)

15 Ogre, I think I know where he is coming from. What he is saying is that even if god said it is wrong that does not mean it is wrong. It is up to the person to decide that. The article seems to push that religion is the main reason for a person's decision. I disagree with that but realize it plays a major role. Brian is trying to state that other things influence morals as well. Even atheist have morals, though they differ from person to person just as everyone else. Brian, Ogre is trying to say every creature on Earth has the right to make its own decision as to what it believes is right and wrong. He, like the article, is trying to say religion is one factor to a persons view. Ogre is also trying to say that a label such as Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, or Jew does not mean he will have the same morals as everyone else, but also does not mean he is influenced solely by there religion. Labels in general are bad. Politics these days should show that. Republicans and Democrats are just a broad title, and, for the most part only allow for two people to run for election against each other. This does not reference how they vote. Just remember one thing Brian. You are who you are based on your environment with a little based on your DNA. Everything from your family, religion, community, and culture both locally and worldwide influence your morals and opinions.

Posted by: Arbitratorofall at September 28, 2006 12:33 AM (5+Jvh)

16 I know it's a minor point, but I am of the opinion that anyone's decisions ARE based on their religion -- even if that religion is atheism. If the word "religion" is defined to mean a person's belief system, then no matter what their belief system, whether it includes a god or not, that IS their religion. That's the point of the article. So sure, everyone does have morals. Christians believe that all those morals come from God. Others believe they come from man. Some will attempt to argue there are other possibilities, but if the morals didn't come from some supernatural source, then they came from Man. I know the Charlotte Capitalist, in particular, argues vehemently against God and Man, claiming "Reason" is King. I would submit that either Reason is Man-created or Supernatural. If is has always been, then it had to be created by something -- otherwise Man created it.

Posted by: Ogre at September 28, 2006 01:00 AM (QmGzr)

17 once again ogre do you believe that rape is wrong only because god says that it is wrong. And even assuming that god did create man with free will he must of had a reason for giving us free will, a reason that he did not create. Otherwise, he would be irrational. If this much is true than what else could god not have created?

Posted by: brian at September 28, 2006 01:32 AM (Z4rnY)

18 So apparently we have now changed the question. One can only assume your initial setup for your question, your claim to be a Catholic who was questioning, was a lie. That would make a you a troll who is only trying to cause trouble and evoke reactions, not have a productive discussion.

Posted by: Ogre at September 28, 2006 09:00 AM (QmGzr)

19 absolutley and unequivicably that is not the case. I can understand why you would think that if perhaps my comments have become emotional but I promise you that was not my intent.

Posted by: brian at September 28, 2006 04:30 PM (Z4rnY)

20 Then why have you veered so far from the point of the post and the point of your question? The point of the post is that you cannot have government without SOME belief system. Your ethics question was attempting to claim that murder is not wrong because God says so, but because it causes pain. So what does this have to do with me, personally, and my opinion on rape?

Posted by: Ogre at September 28, 2006 04:58 PM (oifEm)

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September 22, 2006

Where are our heroes?

I wish there were some real men, some heroes to be found in the world today: real heroes. And I'm not talking about the person who goes out of their way to walk an old lady across the street. I'm talking about REAL heroes.

We've got Muslims continuing an overt holy war against Christians. There's tens of thousands of violent felons free to continue their crimes on the streets of America. There's terrorists celebrating in the streets.

We've got "allies" signing peace treaties with terrorists who are trying to destroy the U.S. The Pope wants to befriend evil. We invite dictators who vow to destroy us to our country to belittle us -- and he's introduced as a friend.

We need men. We need the type of man who fought in WWII. We need men who will stand up to evil, call it evil, and destroy it. Can you imagine if Hitler had wanted to come talk to churches in Harlem in 1942?

At times like this, I seriously think there's no hope any longer for America and freedom. WWII veterans, I apologize for letting this once-great country that you defended fall apart in your lifetime. The free America from the last century is no more.

Sorry, no funnies today. This realization is just too much right now.

P.S. Never fear, I'm not hopeless by any means -- just hopeless for America.

Posted by: Ogre at 04:00 PM | Comments (8) | Add Comment
Post contains 240 words, total size 2 kb.

1 It's not over by any means Bro although sometimes it can appear that way. Sounds like you are having a monumentally shitty day. In 2 hours I will be raising a cold one to you while I crank Triumph's - Fight The Good Fight on my PA system. For what it's worth.

Posted by: Tomslick at September 22, 2006 06:22 PM (RpnNu)

2 Thanks. I might have to try that myself this evening. Classic song, and it always gets me moving.

Posted by: Ogre at September 22, 2006 08:06 PM (oifEm)

3 As is often the case, my glass-half-empty pal, I am going to try to buck you up with some suspiciously good news; hubby showed me a story in the NRA's magazine "American Hunter". It was an article giving credit where 2nd Amendment credit was due. Some background needed before I proceed; we moved to Texas from New Mexico where dumocrap folks brag about how many times they vote and Bill Richardson was about to be elected governor. We decided Texas would be a better place to live....and we were sooooooooo correct! Bill Richardson has done some good things in NM, one of which is that he is reportedly about to sign a bill for a "right to carry". For the NRA to tout it, it must be true. As a licensed concealed carry, my faith still lies in the Spirit of America! Take heart, my friend.

Posted by: DagneyT at September 22, 2006 10:04 PM (pFR9u)

4 Well Ogre, I have felt this way for a while now, I couldn't find the words for it but apologizing to the WW2 vets is the best way to do it. We have let our country become so wrapped up in PC that we have forgot that sometimes PC is the last thing needed. Career politicians and Liberal judges have ruined our nation. This falls on the shoulders of both parties. and our selves, we elected the idiots in office believing that they meant what the said. However after the votes are counted, they forget about the folks they work for US. Hero's are guys like Tancredo and the sheriff in Texas with the tents for convicts. But because of our PC culture they are branded as racist or hate mongers. half empty it is.

Posted by: Robert at September 23, 2006 06:22 AM (n6n5e)

5 Ogre, as bleak as the situation appears, it is nevertheless not wholly hopeless. My surmise is that the appearance conceals two "signed numbers." The first is positive: the number of genuine, manly American patriots ready to do whatever's necessary to defend this country. The second number is negative: the number of lily-livered, offend-no-one parlor pinks who keep screaming that America itself is to blame for the evil in the world, and that we should concentrate on our own faults rather than the harms being done to us. The two numbers may be nearly equal, but the latter group has the Old Media megaphone at its service, which is still a large edge in the national discourse.

Posted by: Francis W. Porretto at September 23, 2006 11:06 AM (PzL/5)

6 Thanks for the kind words, everyone. Dagney, I actually think concealed carry laws are a mixed bag. It's nice that freedoms aren't directly eroding there, but I'm appalled that I should be required by government to ask permission to defend myself. Personally, I refuse to get one of those permits for that very reason. Robert, indeed, Tancredo is a good man. But the sheer number of people, forces, and money allied against him should absolutely terrify anyone who even remotely supports his ideas. Francis, I really am not sure if those numbers are equal. It's really quite impossible to tell how many people fit into that category of positive numbers. Certainly there's some, but at least from my observations, the vast majority that I see and interact with are certainly in the negative category -- either that or zeroes who just don't care about anything other than getting little Johnny to soccer practice on time.

Posted by: Ogre at September 23, 2006 01:29 PM (QmGzr)

7 Hey Ogre..sheesh I'm feelin kinna helpless myself after our govt allowed Eichmadinejad and Chaveeeeeeeeeez onto our shores!..but heads up and soldier on bro..Youre doin a great job!