1 That is REDICULOUS!!!!!!! I'm with you, bro. SCREW the judgement; the town should just ignore the ruling and flip this asshole off when she comes to collect on the judgement. People like this piss me off to no end.

2 I really wish they would ignore her. I would honestly absolutely LOVE to see the federal government come crashing into a town of 2,200 to arrest someone and throw them in federal jail for saying the word "Jesus." It would really show that this country is lost.

3 This lawasuit offends me, can I sue the gubment? Tort reform ... /TJ

4 Yes, I'm sure you can. And you could probably win.

5 Ogre, you have your facts mistaken. What started this mess was when I wen to town council to complain about crack dealers on a street corner. They made my bumper stickers an issue and began to require participation in a Christian prayer as mandatory to participate within the council meetings. I was on the agenda and when I skipped the prayer, was knocked off the agenda. I requested a nonsecular prayer or to allow a rotation of religious leaders within our community and they refused. Yes, I did win in court, and the judgement is not specific again Jesus Christ, but it simply states that no specific deity can be named during the invocation. IF all council members were Pagan, Wiccan, Hindu, Buddhist or Islamic, I am sure Christians would be offended by being forced to participate in a prayer to another God they don't believe in, so this ruling protects us all from being forced to participate within a faith that we do not believe in. You also got the fact of a second suit wrong. The attorney fees, which btw has been ordered and granted, was a part of the original suit. The only way it will become a second suit, is if the town council appeal it and then it has nothing to do with me because I don't get the money, my attorney does. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me, but for once, I wish you all would at least get the facts straight. You call me an idiot, but an idiot with half a brain could do some research and see what you say is false, but then again, you are expecting people, and many are, to be blind sheep to be led to the water troth and drink what ever you serve up, whether it is factual or fictional. I realize this will probably be deleted, but hell, a little education never hurt any one! Well, maybe a little, when they actually had to use their brain to understand the facts! Don't hurt yourself ogre!

6 They began to require participation in a Christian prayer? Ok, I'm not buying that one at all. How did they REQUIRE you to PARTICIPATE? Did they tie you down and beat you until you said "Hail Mary?" Did they grab your throat and move your lips and force you to say "Yeah, Jesus?" That's just silly to even imply that they forced you to participate. If they wanted to say a prayer, you can not listen all you want to. If all the council members were Wiccan, in a free country, they'd be ABSOLUTELY free to say whatever prayer they wanted! And *I* would celebrate it if that were actually allowed to happen! I'm about FREEDOM, not promoting religion. And I believe that if the people of the town want to freely associate and say "We Love Jesus," no federal court should be able to stop them at all. And never fear -- I never delete comments unless they contain serious offensive (bad, course, etc) language (not "offensive" ideas).

7 Ogre, the point that Ms. Wynne was making was this: "They made my bumper stickers an issue and began to require participation in a Christian prayer as mandatory to participate within the council meetings." The point is, they would not let her participate in the council meeting (her RIGHT as a citizen) UNLESS she participated in the Christian prayer. And, mind you, she did this many times (she bowed her head while the prayer was being said), but they still would not even HEAR HER COMPLAINT, but sent her away, just because they did not like her bumper stickers! Not only that, but they spread vicious words about her, which caused mentally imbalanced people to beat her up and to kill her pets!!! Why are you defending people who are trying to get out of doing their jobs (cleaning up the crack problem) and INSTEAD making someone a skapegoat just because she has enough integrity to follow her own conscience in her own religion? If the situation was reversed, as you suggest, and all the council was Wiccan, would you agree that people MUST say a Wiccan prayer to the Wiccan goddess, or else the council will not even HEAR their complaint?

8 I'm not comprehending how you "make" someone participate in a prayer. Do they have mind readers there? "Hey you, with the head bowed -- stop thinking about sex and think about God!" That just doesn't make sense to me. If the entire coucil was Wiccan, I would have no problem with them saying a Wiccan prayer. However, as with the current example, I'm not sure how you FORCE someone to comply with a certain prayer.

9 Perhaps the words shouldn't be "FORCE." Here are her own words as to what happened: "I moved over here in the Fall of 1998, by the Spring of 1999, I had bought this house, which put on me on the other side of town, which meant my route to work changed and had me stopping at a stop sign on a daily basis that 3 crack dealers occupied as well on a daily basis. Because I didn't buy their drugs, they became obscene with me, by grabbing their crotches and telling me they had 12 inches for my backside. This went on for almost 6 months before I had my fill and an argument with them, which by this time they were already driving by my house and if I was outside they continued the obscenities. I made them mad when I cussed them out at the stop sign one day and they decided to jump in their car and chase me down, and I pulled over to play whoop ass with them, but 2 guys from the Big A Auto Parts store came out and they took off. They told me I needed to go to the police and being the biker babe that I am, I didn't want to be a snitch but was informed that in this town, everyone went to the police with their problems, it was the way things were done, so I did. The police told me that they were only allowed 2 undercover operations a year and that if I wanted anything done about it I would have to go to a council meeting and talk with them, which I did, but I had never been to a council meeting prior to that and had no desire to do so and would have never went back had they not made my bumper stickers and my faith an issue and dealt with my issues of the drug dealers. I had no problem with their prayer at the council meeting, matter of fact I participated in it. I stood, bowed my head and said amen at the end, just like everyone else. When it came time for me to talk, I got a sentence out and then they informed me my bumper stickers were offensive and wanted them removed and my time ran out, so I had to go back 6 times and each time I prayed with them, but by that time, I was interested in why it took so long for them to hear me and why did I have to accuse them of making money from the drug dealers to get action, so I continued. Then when I didn't remove my stickers the prayers began to be directed at me or at least that is how I took it when the prayer, "may everyone find JC including the heathens" was said. At the next council meeting, I didn't bow my head and they waited for me to bow my head and then publicly pointed out that I didn't bow my head and people called me a Satanist and told me I wasn't wanted and I could get burned out during the meeting and none of my council said anything about these comments. So then, I asked for a generic prayer or to have members of the community alternate the prayer and they created a policy, which banned members of the community from giving prayers, and went to the churches and requested resolutions and petitions and got them against me and my request. From there, it just escalated to the point of having to file suit, but during all of this the first of the vandalism on my vehicles began and they were throwing bricks through my windows, egging my house and the first of the cats began to be poisoned, so they pushed me to the point of putting a stop to this organized hateful attitude towards differences." And here's just SOME of the things that town's done to her: "I walked into my home where a front door and windows were broken and spray painted, cabinets tore down, poop in microwave, cat box dumped in my bed, spray paint on the walls that said, " die witch, " refrigerator and stove flipped over and everything out of the drawers and it was totally demolished. I called the Chief and then I went to the police station only to be given a security catalog and told he would be jeopardizing his job. I went home and attempted to clean up and from that day forward until August 11, 2004, my house was vandalized a total of 9 times. I have redone my home 5 times and am working on the 6th now. During that time, everything except one piece of furniture survived in its entirety, which is a dresser from a beautiful bedroom suit. How it survived I don't have a clue, but one of my friend's reminds that he feels it is because when he came over and saw it flipped on the floor and offered to turn it back up, I told him to leave it that it would only end up there again and he said he thinks that saved it. During this time, I did try to get, as much of my stuff that wasn't broken or broken too badly outside in the shed or on the front porch, but it didn't save my animals. I walked in once to find a cat gutted and hung from a planter in the back bedroom, my African Grey, Little One beheaded and her heart cut out, with a note attached saying I was next, cats poisoned, murdered, my horses almost killed, my oldest Yorkie was blinded when she was 14 and then attacked again this year, which now she is completely blinded and just recently had to under go surgery which they didn't think she would survive due to her age. I have been pulled over my fence and beaten. Even my male raccoon was taken and I think they were going to kill him, but possibly attempted to torture him first by shaving him, which was their mistake, because he got away and came home. They killed my iguana, Sammie, which she was 6 feet long, my black shark and due to the attacks I had to give my horses away because I couldn't be in 2 places at once, my 9 foot Burmese as well." All because that Council made her a scapegoat because they didn't want to do their own work and clean up the town.

10 You've addressed a few different issues. If there is criminal activity taking place at her house, she should call the city police. If they do not help, she can call the Sheriff or the state police. If they do not help, then she can call the federal government. It's hard to blame criminal activity in her house on the city council unless she's got proof that those people were involved. If she does, however, certainly go to the state government (state senators, state reps). I think the main point is the center one in your reply. She was "offended" because someone said that they wished the "heathens" would see the light. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO NOT BE OFFENDED BY ANYONE. If she's offended by a prayer, don't listen to it. Don't file a lawsuit to stop the prayer. She's not the first person in the country to go to a council meeting to ask for help fighting drug dealers. She's not the first to be completely ignored by the council -- it happens ALL THE TIME. I don't know what's on her bumper stickers, but if I saw them and didn't like them, I could ask her to remove them, too. There's nothing wrong with that. This sounds like a personal issue that has absolutely nothing to do with religion. It sounds like there was some fighting between people, including her, and the fight was taken to court, and it included religion to get to court -- but I can't tell. I'd like to hear the story from the other side, because I bet it would be drastically different. Too bad the animals had to suffer in the middle of such human arguments. And seriously, thanks for stopping by and trying to set the record straight.

11 You're welcome. Thanks for listening! And good luck with your fishin'! :-D

12 Thank you -- unfortunately, I didn't even get a nibble. I barely caught seaweed. I think my hooks were on backwards...