1 YES!!!! OGRE for PREZ!!!!

2 Outstanding, I think the 51'st state would make a good hog farm?

3 I think you should be Bush's new speech writer, Ogre! **THIS** is the cowboy I voted for twice... *sigh* I really wish Bush would find his backbone, and start speaking from his heat and gut again. -- Kat www>CatHouseChat.com

4 We can pump oil out of the ground and fill it back in with trash -- endless landfill space! Thanks for stopping by, everyone, I really wish someone would have the guts to tell these people the truth and stop pussyfooting around these issues, trying to make people "like" us.

5 ****THUD**** Another CLASSIC from Ogre. and Kat, let's recommend him as a speechwriter.

6 Hey 2008 Presidential candidates, want my vote? Use my speech.

7 NO ONE does it better than Ogre on a rant. OUTSTANDING Sir. Simply outstanding.....

8 Why thank you!

9 Applause, applause! I just linked to this in the comments section at http://alwaysonwatch.blogspot.com/2006/08/saudi-demands-apology.html

10 Thanks, AOW. I just don't understand why more people don't understand.

11 Wow! It's a good thing for them that they're on the other side of the world. I don't think anyone would have been able to stop you from tearing them apart limb from limb.

12 "It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists," he writes, "but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims. We cannot clear our names unless we own up to the shameful fact that terrorism has become an Islamic enterprise; an almost exclusive monopoly, implemented by Muslim men and women." - Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, Saudi journalist in London Words from the horse's mouth.

13 Quran mentions this incident (Q33.26,27). Sahih hadeeses and the first muslim historian Ibn Ishaq give all the details of it (for references see "faithfreedom.org") All muslim authorities accept the fact. Yes muslims are embarassed every time it is mentioned and give silly excuses like they had commited treason, and that they were judged by the jewish law for treason. If treason was the charge then why did not the good and kind prophet punish the leaders only? Was it necessary to behead all the adult males? Was it necessary to enslave all the women and children to be sold in slavery to buy arms? Was it necessary for the prophet to personally rape beautiful 17 year old Rehana? Perhaps the apologists are using the concept of "taqiuya" in islam in which you are allowed to lie for the good of islam and deny that the massacre ever happenened.

14 Ogre my friend, I thought I had a good rant on being offended, your's is tip-top. Good one old boy, damned good one.

15 Indeed, James, Taquiya is alive and well in Islam today! Thanks for stopping by, everyone, and thanks, GM!

16 Here's something that I think will help everyone understand Islam better. The following article applies to cults of all shapes and sizes, be it the fictional "opus dei" in the Da vinci Code, to Hara Khrisna to Martial arts organizations or even.... (let's be politcally correct here, in case someone demands an "apology" from me. ) Authority (claims to receive knowledge from a “Higher source” guro/sifu/icon/god) Terminology (When the “group” uses the same terms as the “Authority” they begin to see things colored by the same perceptions as the authority. They are all on the same page. The clever use of language helps control the groups perceptions, ideas, and thoughts.) Ritual (the authority uses ritual to control the groups “actions” in a physical sense. This is done by controlling associations, relationships, and the groups “time”) This “authority” figure must claim to receive its information and “legitimacy” from a “higher source”. A sifu, guro, Icon, master, or even God himself. The source of the authorities legacy is to a certain degree perceived as infallible, and as such, becomes a sacred cow. In the Martial Arts world this is done by tracing “lineage” back to a mystical source. A keeper of the magic book. In the religious world this is done by tracing the source of information back to a prophet, or to God himself. The Authority must set themselves up as the mouthpiece of God on Earth. The keepers of truth. The next essential element is terminology. Terminology allows the authority the ability to make the group perceive and express the same ideas as the authority. If you are performing a “foute”, “Jeet Tek”, or “teep” you are to a degree expressing a “style”. If you are simply “kicking” then you are expressing yourself. An Authority will always prefer you express “their style”, and not yourself. In religious cults the use of language serves to create a distinction not between “styles” as in Martial Arts, but between the authorities “truth”, and lies, or the “world”. If we say “we are in the truth” then others are by proxy must be “in a lie”. Although this may go unstated, the implication is absolute. It is necessary for all cult authorities to create an environment of “us vs them”. This is done through the clever use of language, “terminology”. Us vs them Insiders vs outsiders The tribe vs the enemy The sacred vs the profane Governments will often use language for the same purpose. Repeated often enough “repetition for emphasis” (a form of brainwashing), the ideas the government wish to get across often become truths in the public mind. For example: We give foreign aid - they export revolution We inform - they use propaganda We defend ourselves - they are aggressors Our missiles are designed to deter - theirs designed to strike We have “defensive” weapons - they have offensive weapons We are freedom fighters - they are imperialists The final ingredient to an unhealthy organization, and a successful cult is the use of ritual. Ritual is designed to control the time and relationships of the group. This in turn helps control the group’s actions. What does that mean? Here is a simple example. In ancient Rome most legionnaires would never throw a spear in anger. Especially during the famous era of roman peace. As such the government constantly kept the legions working. Building walls, towns, and structures. Keeping the legions busy, and controlling the legions “time”, kept the legions from thinking long and hard about the Roman governments decisions, and possibly becoming a threat and considering an overthrow. In Martial Arts ritual is used to control a students time and relationships. Higher ranking students often train separately from lower ranking students, and encouraged not to fraternize. Their training sessions are often secret. This prevents the beginning student from forming a clear picture of where this “art” eventually leads, and thus becoming disillusioned. The elaborate use of ritual, and rigid class structure keeps the student occupied during class time. Without their own “time” to explore the information in class, and spar in an “alive” manner, they are never afforded the opportunity to discover that what they are learning will not actually work. It also helps keep the student “in his place”. Which is to say that he is discouraged through the use of ritual from ever questioning the authority figure in any way. Another way Martial Arts Guro’s exert control on their organizations is by discouraging the students from training at other schools or Gyms. Some extreme organizations even kick out students who attend other classes, as this is deemed “disloyal!" In religion ritual is use for the same purpose. Devotees are often discouraged from associating with outsiders. In extreme cults the Organization will often go so far as to “excommunicate” people for associating with certain individuals! This control of the group’s relationships helps keep the group in line with the authorities ideas. Just as with the military, religious cults must also find a way to occupy the groups time, thus cutting down on the time the group has to research and think about the authorities decisions. This is often done by demanding large amounts of time a week where the group meets together, and in some cults through proselytizing. Encouraging the group to spend its free time recruiting others. Religious Cults also exert control on their groups by discouraging, or in some extreme cases, out right banning members from reading publications or books that offer an alternative view, which is deemed destructive or malicious by the cult. Rest assured that any organization on earth that pursues such a policy must have much to hide. Just as any Martial Arts Instructor who pursues such a policy is demonstrating his own insecurity. Any group or individual that is offering only the truth will NEVER discourage adherents from reading critical literature. Truth will always shine out, and there is no need for book banning when you speak and preach only truth! The most effective ways to exert control over an individual life is through associations (whom the group is allowed form relationships with). Occupying the groups personal time, and sex. This is why you will find a heavy emphasis placed on the personal life of cult members. . who they are with, when they are with them, and who they sleep with. This is the sign of a clear cut religious cult. Why do people create/ need cults? That’s a good question. The only possible answer I can think of is that people find security in a cult environment. There is comfort in submitting to an authority that claims to receive its knowledge and legitimacy from a “higher source”. There is comfort in the group that uses an us vs them paradigm, and enforces its dogma with terminology. There is comfort in dogma itself, and there is great comfort in ritual. In things familiar. “So we acquire a sense of self worth either by realizing our talents, or by keeping busy or by identifying ourselves with something apart from us ­ be it a cause, a leader, a group, possessions or whatnot. The path to self realization is the most difficult.” “Similarly, we have more faith in what we imitate than in what we originate. We cannot derive an absolute certitude from anything which has its roots in us. The most poignant sense of insecurity comes from standing alone and we are not alone when we imitate. It is thus with most of us; we are what other people say we are. We know ourselves chiefly by hearsay.” - Bruce Lee Truer words are seldom spoken. It is that path of self realization that Bruce spoke of that we need to encourage others and ourselves to pursue. We do not want to become one of the countless numbers of people who derive their sense of self worth from belonging, or following, a leader, cause, or cult. How then do we create an organization without creating a cult? By following the fourth principle of the Gym. Not setting yourself up as an authority figure. Not encouraging others to use cult like language, titles, or and us vs them attitude. And finally, by not creating any ritual. People must be allowed to think for themselves. Indeed they should be encouraged to exercise and develop critical thinking. Questioning authority every single step of the way. And constantly demanding that anybody, or anything that sets itself up as an authority justify its own existence. One thing is absolutely certain; More harm, violence, death and destruction, has been done in the name of “Just obeying authority”, then has been, or ever will be done in the name of rebellion. Krishnamurti: “Suppose, if there were no book, no guru, no teacher, what would you do? What would you do? No drugs, no tranquilizers, no organized religions, what would you do? Questioner: “I can’t imagine what I would do.”. . . . . . . . . . . . . .Perhaps there would be a moment of urgency there.” Krishnamurti: “That’s it. We haven’t the urgency because we say, “well somebody is going to help me.” Questioner: “But most people would be driven insane by that situation.” Krishnamurti: “I am not so sure sir.” On August 3rd, 1929 Krishnamaurti spoke to a crowd of thousands at a camp in Ommen. The crowd had gathered to hear the man that had been proclaimed a “Messiah” as a child, a “Savior”. Needless to say they where shocked and surprised by the speech that Krishnamurti gave, and the truth that he revealed. Here is a transcript of that famous 1929 speech. We are going to discuss this morning the dissolution of the Order of the Star. Many people will be delighted, and others will be rather sad. It is a question neither for rejoicing nor for sadness, because it is inevitable, as I am going to explain. KrishnamurtiYou may remember the story of how the devil and a friend were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend asked the devil, “What did that man pick up?” “He picked up a piece of the truth,” said the devil. “That is very bad business for you, then” said his friend. “Oh, not at all,” the devil replied, “I am going to help him organize it.” I maintain that truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, un approachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. If you understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organize a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you must not organize it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallized; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others. This is what everyone throughout the world is attempting to do. Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down, rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it. You cannot bring the mountintop to the valley. If you would attain to the mountaintop, you must pass through the valley, climb the steeps, unafraid of the dangerous precipices. You must climb towards the truth, it cannot be “stepped down” or organized for you. Interest in ideas is mainly sustained by organizations, but organizations only awaken interest from without. Interest, which is born out of love of truth for its own sake, but aroused by an organization, is of no value. The organization becomes a framework into which its members can conveniently fit. They no longer strive after the truth or the mountaintop, but rather carve for themselves a convenient niche in which they put themselves, or let the organization place them, and consider that the organization will thereby lead them truth. . . . .I maintain that no organization can lead man to spirituality. If an organization is to be created for this purpose, it becomes a crutch, a weakness, a bondage, and must cripple the individual, and prevent him from growing, from establishing his uniqueness, which lies in the discovery, for himself of the absolute, unconditioned truth. So that is another reason why I have decided, as I happen to be the head of the order, to dissolve it. No one has persuaded me to this decision. This is no magnificent dead, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow the truth. I am not concerned with whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from his cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories or philosophies. Then you will naturally ask me why I go the world over, continually speaking. I will tell you for what reason I do this; not because I desire a following, not because I desire I desire a special group of disciples. (How men love to be different from their fellowmen, however ridicules, absurd, and trivial the distinctions may be! I do not want to encourage that absurdity.) I have no disciples, no apostles, either on earth or in the realm of spirituality. . . . . . . . .If there are only five people who listen, who will live, who will face their faces towards uncertainty, it will be sufficient. Of what use is it to have thousands who do not understand, who are fully embalmed in prejudice, who do not want new, but would rather translate the new to suit their own sterile, stagnant selves? If I speak strongly, please do not misunderstand me, it is not through lack of compassion. If you go to the surgeon for an operation, is it kindness on his part to operate even if it causes you pain? So, in a like manner, if I speak straightly, it is not through lack of real affection ­ on the contrary. . . . For eighteen years you have been preparing for this event, for the Coming of the world teacher. For eighteen years you have organized, you have looked for someone who would give a new delight to your hearts and minds, who would transform your whole life, who would give you a new understanding; for someone who would raise you to a new plane of life, who would give you a new encouragement, who would set you free ­ and now look what is happening! Consider, reason with yourselves, and discover in what way belief has made you different ­ not with the superficial difference of the wearing of the badge, which is trivial, absurd. In what manner has such belief swept away all the essential things of life? That is the only way to judge ; in what way are you free, greater, more dangerous to every society which is based on the false and unessential? In what way have the members of this organization of the Star become different? . . . You are all depending for your spirituality on someone else, for your happiness on someone else, for your enlightenment on someone else; and although you have been preparing for me eighteen years, when I say these things are unnecessary, when I say that you must put them all away and look within yourselves for the enlightenment, for the glory, for the purification, and for the incorruptibility of the self, not one of you is willing to do it. There may be a few, but very, very few. So why have an organization? . . . .I said last year that I would compromise. Very few listened to me then. This year I have made it absolutely clear. I do not know how many thousands throughout the world ­ members of the Order ­ have been preparing for me for eighteen years, and yet now they are not willing to listen unconditionally, wholly, to what I say. So why have an organization? . . . .You will see how absurd is the whole structure that you have built, looking for external help, depending on others for your comfort, for your happiness, for your strength. These can only be found within yourselves. So why have an organization? You are accustomed to being told how far you have advanced, what is your spiritual status. How childish! Who but yourself can tell you if you are incorruptible? You are not serious in these things. So why have an organization? But those who really desire to understand, who are looking to find that which is eternal, without beginning, and without end, will walk together with great intensity, will be a danger to everything that is unessential, to unreality’s, to shadows. And they will concentrate, they will become a flame, because they understand. Such a body we must create, and that is my purpose. Because of that real understanding their will be friendship. Because of that true friendship ­ which you do not seem to know ­ there will be real cooperation on the part of each one. And this is not because of authority, not because of salvation, not because of immolation for a cause, but because you really understand, and hence are capable of living in the eternal. This is a greater thing then all pleasure, than all sacrifice. So these are some of the reasons why, after careful consideration for two years, I have made this decision. It is not from a momentary impulse. I have not been persuaded to it by anyone. I am not persuaded in such things. For two years I have been thinking about it, this, slowly, carefully, patiently, and I have decided to disband the Order, as I happen to be its head. You can form other organizations and expect someone else. With that I am not concerned, nor with creating new cages, new decorations for the cages. My only concern is to set men free absolutely, unconditionally free.

17 Islam is an organized religion. Pure and simple Facists is an inaccurate term to use. cult or totalitarianism would have been better but given that Bush is a Zionist/Evangelist ***, him using the term cult or totalitarianism would be like the pot calling the kettle black. Bush, to me, is a fool. And so are most American politicians. Either choose to be 1. the most powerful bigot 2. or discourage organised religion option 1 means smashing the middle east with nuclear and chemical and biological weapons. And america has that power. Crash a plane into the pentagon? gas a town Shoot tourist at an airport? tactically nuke a city hostages? kidnapp the terrorists families and friends and arrange a fair exchange (incidentally this is how Israel plays the game. when was the last time Israeli airlines got hijacked? Thick about it. It vicious and cruel,i wouldn't approve, but it works.) option 2. Start a campaign from grassroots level emphasizing science and philosophy; stop buying the evangelist and jewish vote. Stop wasting time discussing abortion and all that religious rot and spend time figuring out how to improve the American economy, improve American lives. Stop sending money to Israel that could be better spent on Americans like the the Americans in NEW ORLEANS. In other words stop being a bigot and offending the rest of the (bigotted religious) world and eliminate extremism (including Islamic exremism) in America. ] Bush has openly chosen to show his prejudice against Muslims and YET he does little to make them cower. Which option will the republicans take? Or will they take the 3rd option of continuing their present policies and watch more Americans die fruitlessly in Iraq?

18 Well. That sure is something, James. I have to tell you, I strongly disagree with your options and suggestions. You think that we should, basically, allow Islam to take over the world. If the US simply lets Islam do what it wants in the Middle East, they will not stop there. They want us DEAD. They don't care how good our economy is. They don't care about science and philosophy. They do not care how much money we give to incompetents in New Orleans. You claim we shouldn't "offend" them? Simply by being ALIVE we offend them. Therefore, the ONLY way to not offend them is to simply die or convert to Islam. I think the Republicans should do something different -- I think they should kill the bastards before they kill us. I know you don't like that choice, but your option 1 is kill them, while your option 2 is that they kill us.

19 My idea of an option is simple: Nuke the entire middle east. During the Mecca events. Assist them all to their meeting with Allah.

20 Did you see Walter Williams today? He all but said that, too!

21 i NEVER said we should let these islamic cultist/racist take over the world; far from it. And islamic racism has affected me here in singapore as well Heard of Malaysia? It's accross the border from Singapore. Their constituition GUARANTEES special rights for malay-muslims. From university admission to jobs. There is a quota on how many chinese people a company can hire. They have religious police patrolling malaysia, and if you kiss your girlfriend in public they can arrest you. Like our good friends the saudis, yes? Singapore was actually part of Malaysia for 2 years before they kicked us out; singapore had too many chinese peopple for their taste. Thats the problem to our north Now to the south: Indonesia. Until recently the racist muslim government did not allow celebration of chinese new year. Chinese victims of crime never get justice in Indonesia. There have been massive race riots in Indonesia many times now, the last was in 1997? I cannot recall. But each time Muslims went on a campaign of pillage rape and murder. The muslim police and army of course did nothing. Many Malaysian and Indonesian chinese now seek refuge in Singapore. Or elsewhere; a friend of mine, jakarta born now calls Australia his home. And the muslims complain Aus are racists? So far my friend hasn't had more complains of Aussies than Indons- in fact none. Here we are 3 million chinese + a million plus more people, all of whom are generally racially indifferent surrounded at present by a sea of TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY MILLION MUSLIMS, MANY OF WHOM HATE OUR GUTS. We are pluralistic and prosperous and for that they hate us. Incidentally the jews empathized with us; our military was israeli trained. We had to smuggle the Israeli military advisors in as "Mexicans" to avoid mass protests in Malaysia. Anyhow they found out eventually. Not quite sure what happened but i know they weren't too happy. Indonesians and Malaysia are now a breeding ground, a fertile one, for Al Queda. Their branch in this region is called Jermiah Islamia. Did i mention that the recently retired Malaysian prime minister, Mahatir Mohammed dream of a world ruled by a "benovelent" muslim empire, a world in which jews would be annhilated and everyone, white man, yellow man would kow-tow to muslims? No? now you know. So plz clarify, folks exactly what i said that made me sound like a terrorists ass kisser. I only meant to discuss certain paths the US gov should take in the war on terror, or more correctly a war on bigottry. I'm just saying that the US gov should display more tact to avoid getting snipped by the ultra-liberals which tacitly support the terroroists whilst strengthening their military presence in terrorist countries simultaneously. Criticise them, but be even handed. A word like "facists" only invites ridicule. Start criticising the Saudis. Why aren't obviously prejudiced extreme politicians in Saudi implicated in the war on terror? Take out the Saudi gov. The US keeps saying they are allies; its like calling Nazis allies. They implement social policies which produce ALMOST ALL THE world's terrorists. A friend of mine once worked in Saudi. Do you know that these Saudis complain that the Americans and the West are insensitive whilst all religions OTHER THAN THE EXTREMIST BRAND OF ISLAM CALLED Wahhabism are OUTLAWED? Woman can't stand in the same queue as men at a supermarket. Apparently Wahhabist are so horny they can't help but rape woman they come into contact with. Why are american presidents so friendly to these women hating nutters? Maybe Rice should wear a headscarf? "Ibn 'Abd Al-Wahhab made a name for himself through a series of actions. First, after he returned to al-Uyayna, he persuaded the ruler of the town to destroy a sacred tomb revered by local Muslims, citing the Prophet Muhammed's teaching that forbade idol-worship. Secondly, he ordered that an adulteress be stoned to death, a practice that had become uncommon in the area." Why do muslim extremist have manopoly on propaganda and the media?Its time for the US and every1 to fight back, but be even handed we don't want to SWOOP TO THEIR LEVEL. Start distributing anti-extremist phaphlets. Assasinate pro-extemist middle eastern newscasters.. e.t.c The US should start demanding APOLOGIES FROM THE MUSLIMS GOVERNMENTS. Never ever should they offer apologies; the muslim public will only take apologies as justification for 9-11 which incidentally killed many muslims as well... yet another thing the US should remind them of. Why doesn't Bush mention these things? Quote how many muslims are killed in EACN & EVERY terrorist attack. They FAR OUTWEIGHT THE numbers killed by american bombs. Arrest all those hate preachers in the US and send them to Cuba. why does the US gov offer freedom of speech and civil liberties to people who don't respect them? Persuade as many muslims as you can to join our side, nuke those you can't. And frankly this is the policey taken by my Singapore gov. Newspapers here criticise extremist all the time; there's no talk about apologizing to them. Gov officials from time to time will meet with muslim leaders. Those that don't agree with government policies of racial & religious tolerance will have a few days chat Simple.

22 few days chat with Internal security. sorry left that out. When i mean don't offend i meant don't swoop to their level thats all. Just mention the truth - that they are the real racists, the real murderers and truth is most offensive of all. But this way you discredit the terrorists rather than fuel support for them. (don't call them facists)

23 I'd certainly agree with criticizing the Saudis -- that's certainly warranted -- indeed, that was the point of my rant here. But when you gave option #2 as "Start a campaign from grassroots level emphasizing science and philosophy" and "stop being a bigot and offending the rest of the (bigotted religious) world" -- that's saying to leave the Islamists alone. The ONLY way to not offend them is to die or surrender -- otherwise they're offended! Yes, absolutely, point out they are what they are. But they WILL be offended -- AND I DON'T CARE.